"Wholesome organisations" - Interview with Matthias Lang about alternative designs for the world of work
Zukunftsmusik: our series of talks with future shapers.
An interview with Matthias Lang, Evolutionary Catalyst at practice partner dwarfs and Giants from Vienna.
Professional Campus: Dear Matthias Lang, dwarfs and Giants stands for 'wholesome organisations'; what is the impetus behind this?
Matthias Lang: We founded ourselves as a lab eight years ago to develop and bring to life alternative designs of leadership and collaboration on our own skin, but also in our work with client organisations.
Professional Campus: What was important to you at the time?
Matthias Lang: One difficulty was that conventional organisations were often very bad at coping with the speed of change. Traditionally, a reorganisation was initiated every few years. By the time it was halfway into the breadth of larger organisations, the concept was already outdated. This is because organisations were geared towards stability and efficiency. This conflicts with the desire for adaptation and flexibility. A second core aspect of 'wholesome' is based on our personal experiences, but also on observations of how people were doing.
Professional Campus: Was it to do with discomfort?
Matthias Lang: We came to the realisation: the classic setup of the management-organisation hierarchy simply had harmful, unpleasant side effects.
You get a lot in return - for example, efficiency, clarity, speed of implementation - but it's not good for the people who work in these organisations.
Professional Campus: ...And that applies to both managed and leading employees?
Matthias Lang: Yes, definitely! We have seen that people in management positions are also affected by the downsides of this set-up; that they are very challenged. Of course, they made the decision and received a lot of compensation for it - including status, recognition and visibility. But often they were either very lonely or they felt overwhelmed - and couldn't admit it. Or, in order to survive well, they simply continued to follow ingrained patterns.
Professional Campus:We're talking about larger organisations here, not start-ups. How did this rethink come about?
Matthias Lang: The problem here was: for a long time, it was inconceivable to manage organisations differently. It was like a monoculture: all organisations were structured according to a uniform pattern. Let's say I worked for organisation A and moved to B, and then from B to C: you immediately found each other again. There were also department heads, division heads, board members... The rules of the game were the same everywhere. Controlling was the same everywhere. Planning processes were the same everywhere. It was interchangeable.
It was a monoculture of organisational designs. We were very inspired by the fact that the publications of Frédéric Laloux, Brian Robertson and many others suddenly put something on the table and we said, "Hey! Hey! We can do this differently too.
Professional Campus: Were there no examples of organisations set up differently before?
Matthias Lang:There were alwayssporadic individual cases, such as the Gore-Tex Company, Semco from Brazil...
Professional Campus: Or Ben & Jerry...
Matthias Lang: Of course! And these examples were also known. But it was always said: This is very, very special. It's a special case. With Laloux, there was suddenly evidence. I believe that the time was ripe for people to say: We could seriously try this in our organisation. That was a phase of prototype development where we tried to go into implementation.
Professional Campus: Didn't you encounter any resistance from managers?
Matthias Lang: We have experienced several managers who have said at the end of their career, for example before retiring: I've been a manager all my life. I'm quitting now. And now I want to get involved in society. Now I want to do something meaningful. And then we said: Why is it a contradiction? Why do you either have to make money or do something socially useful?
Professional Campus: So does a change like this go hand in hand with conviction and social commitment?
Matthias Lang: Of course, companies create economic benefits, they ensure social prosperity and jobs. But more and more people have realised that this is not balanced.
We very much believe that an organisation can be economically sustainable - in the sense that it can operate in a healthy way and make a contribution to society at the same time.
Professional Campus: What would be examples of contributing to society?
Matthias Lang: One example: We have noticed that many business leaders are positioning themselves very clearly against radicalisation. For example: We don't want racism in our organisation. We want diversity and pluralism. Even if we are not a party-political organisation. But we agree with a democratic, liberal basic consensus. And we are also committed to this. For example, with statements on the reception of refugees - not only from Ukraine, but also from other regions. Or with specific programmes in apprenticeship training or in recruiting, where integration in the organisation is the issue.
There is certainly also an economic need and a benefit if you need labour. But I have seen many business people who do not act opportunistically, but who position themselves from a civic, democratic point of view.
Recently, there have been shocking election results in Germany or in neighbouring countries. And I believe that, despite the tendency towards radicalisation or at least very strong emotionalisation, companies have and offer an opportunity to develop an integrative force. If I can work together fruitfully and productively with colleagues from other cultures, religions, age groups, genders... in a work context - why should I experience it differently in my neighbourhood or in my district? Organisations can promote basic values of coexistence.
"The integrative and multiplicative factor of organisations should not be underestimated."
Professional Campus: You were involved in the SWITCH movement for planetary education at Witten/Herdecke University (UW/H)...
Matthias Lang: That would have been my second example: What responsibility do companies have in terms of environmental sustainability? This is a question that I am personally very concerned about. The multiplicative factor of organisations should not be underestimated.
Sustainability is the best-known term. But as we have already overstepped several planetary boundaries, it is about regenerative economic activity, i.e. repairing damage that has already occurred. The discussion of terms is irrelevant here. One thing is clear to me: we need to make every effort to move towards a sustainable economy. I believe that the issue of ecological sustainability, which must go hand in hand with social sustainability - that is also absolutely clear - is the greatest global challenge.
Professional Campus: What leverage can a movement like SWITCH have?
Matthias Lang: We were very happy to hear about the SWITCH conference, because educational institutions like Witten can make a huge contribution.
Because they can bring different systems such as research, such as business, young people (who are also interested in developing their own value construct for themselves) into a dialogue that is otherwise often very compartmentalised. Or as a broad social discourse where we are only recipients - that's why we are very careful with conferences that consist of a series of keynote speakers.
When it comes to spaces for encounters, SWITCH is a very good format because it is about a change in values that we are right in the middle of. It's about social transformation, but it's also about organisational transformation and individual transformation. We need to address this on different levels at the same time. That is why we not only need discourse, but also special spaces for dialogue.
